+ Hermione Granger
Kip Carter - Nov 11, 2003 2:44 am
Edited Nov 17, 2005 2:22 am
I changed one word in the text. - Kip 17Jun04
I changed the title of this thread from Hermione Granger #2 to Hermione Granger and changed the title of the linked thread from Hermione Granger #1 to Hermione Granger (posts from Aug 29, 2003 to Nov 9, 2003) when I moved the linked thread to the Archived folder. - Kip 9Mar04
Hermione Granger is one of the key characters in the Harry Potter series and because of this, the messages in her thread grow at a huge rate. The first thread Hermione Granger (posts from Aug 29, 2003 to Nov 9, 2003) accumulated 229 messages in the 74 days since we returned to the World Crossing (WX) system.
The original thread had 620 messages on November 10,2003 with the last message that day being Post #205 by LauraAngel. In an effort to consolidate some similiar messages on another thread, Hermione's True Age was moved to the end of the original thread and the 24 messages of that thread start at Post #206 and continue to the end where I have stopped any further posts.
The creation of this new thread allows those who care to look back and continue what wwas being discussed in a logical way without having to manuever around the 24 added messages. This will also allow for those interested in the moved 24 messages to now logical enter their thoughts into the new conversation.
Some of you may find this tedious and some of you, I hope, will find this a good working solution to the original huge thread. Regardless of how each of you handle this new thread depends on our working together. The nature of a forum is that new people come in and are faced with this huge number of messages to read and are somewhat intimidated by the amount that is needed to read before they can add their thoughts and ideas. This has caused many messages to start to rehash issues that some feel have already been discussed and problems occur. I hope my closing out the original huge thread and providing the links in this new thread will allow a new peaceful discussion of Hermione Granger to continue with new life and no preconceived ideas of what needs to be discussed.
The first message to this new thread will set the tone of the thread for future posters. Let try to make this work.
For those who care about the original thread with its added messages, I have changed its status to permanent (for how long it remains in that status depends on how this thread progresses) and have placed it at the bottom of this folder for those who want to read those the various posts.
(2477 previous messages)wynnleaf
- Jul 12, 2009 4:18 am (#2478 of 2486)
The reason that it is far more likely that Hermione did not ask her parent's permission is this:
Modifying memories and even Obliviate can be overcome by a powerful Legilimens like Voldemort and Hermione knew it. Therefore removing their memories of their daughter does nothing to protect vital info from LV. The only thing that actually protects info from LV is getting the Grangers hidden out of the country where LV can't find them. So why modify their memories if LV could still find crucial info? The only reason to modify their memories is to convince them to leave the country under assumed names.
You're right, it doesn't seem likely that bright people like the Granters who supposedly know a good deal about Harry's situation would object to going into hiding if Hermione had laid out a convincing argument. After all, even the Dursleys agreed.
This leaves it more likely (and very in-character for Hermione) that Hermione did not spend time trying to convince her parents, but instead simply changed their memories to make it easy to send them out of the country into hiding.
The memory change wasn't to protect memories from LV, as it LV could still get the memories if he found the Grangers. The memory change was to get them to leave the country.
Hieronymus Graubart - Jul 12, 2009 10:39 am (#2479 of 2486)
LV could still get the memories if he found the Grangers, I agree to this.
But why should Voldermort try to extract any memories from the Wilkins, while neither he nor they knew that there was somthing interesting to find?
... getting the Grangers hidden out of the country where LV can't find them would not be enough. Just broadcast the message “Hermione Granger has been badly wounded. Her parents should come to the <insert name> hospital as soon as possible”. How could the Wilkins stay away if they still remembered who this “Hermione Granger” was? Modifying their memories was an essential part of getting the Grangers hidden.
I don’t see a reason to assume motives (in-character or not) for Hermione, when she gave us a perfectly reasonable motive: ” ... to make it more difficult for Voldemort to track them down ... “.
On the other hand, I don’t believe that Hermione was absolutely sincere when she continued ... because unfortunately, I’ve told them quite a bit about you., so we all seem to make our own assumptions.
Knowing, for example, what Harry had seen in the Mirror of Erised (if he ever told Hermione and she told her parents) may have helped Voldemort to trap Harry by faking the return of some long-lost relatives.
But Hermione knew what happened to the Longbottoms when death eaters tried to get information they simply could not provide. She also knew that Voldemort had used a faked danger for Sirius to catch Harry. Of course, Hermione would not rush to the rescue without double-checking that there really was danger, but this would be a perfect reason to really try to catch her parents first.
Obviously there was much more to be feared than Voldemort getting information like “Harry wants a family” or “Hermione likes shopping at Tottenham Court Road more than at other places”. Hermione understated (very british) and distracted from the real sources of her fears, because these were her fears for her family, and (in her view) shouldn’t concern Harry, who had already enough on his shoulders. I don’t believe that Hermione really was concerned with the protection of memories.
Off for another test of the time tunnel (may take me some days again).
wynnleaf
- Jul 13, 2009 4:42 am (#2480 of 2486)
The only thing that actually protects info from LV is getting the Grangers hidden out of the country where LV can't find them. (wynnleaf)
I'm sorry I wasn't completely specific and absolutely clear. When I said "getting the Grangers hidden out of the country" I meant that to include a name and identity change as well. LV might wonder where they were, but how would he know they were in Australia? I tend to assume that the Grangers were intelligent people, intelligence usually running in families, so I assume they'd understand the important aspects of keeping their changed identities completely secret. Since changing identities and going into hiding happens in real life, I think two intelligent professional people would be better about it than most.
i Just broadcast the message “Hermione Granger has been badly wounded. Her parents should come to the <insert name> hospital as soon as possible”. How could the Wilkins stay away if they still remembered who this “Hermione Granger” was? Modifying their memories was an essential part of getting the Grangers hidden. (Hieronymus Graubart)
What would LV be doing? Broadcasting this message around the world?? He'd have no idea where they were. He might broadcast the message around the UK, but he wasn't in control of the whole world, just the UK. And if the Grangers were following UK news (as they probably would be), I'm going to assume they'd be bright enough to realize that 1. the bad guys were in charge and 2. the bad guys were after their daughter and her friends and 3. any call for Hermione's parents was certainly not altruistic and had nothing to do with an effort to get the loving parents to the side of their poor injured daughter.
You know, it's like in real life if someone is in a hot spot of the world and captured by terrorists. The parents back in the home country know about it, but how many have you read about rushing to the hot spot country in question attempting to rescue their adult child from the hands of the terrorists? The Grangers probably aren't idiots and wouldn't do that.
rambkowalczyk
- Jul 14, 2009 1:09 pm (#2481 of 2486)
The parents back in the home country know about it, but how many have you read about rushing to the hot spot country in question attempting to rescue their adult child from the hands of the terrorists? The Grangers probably aren't idiots and wouldn't do that. wynnleaf
I think there are some instances where a parent or a loved one has tried to contact the country or terrorists directly thinking that they might have a better chance.
Hieronymus Graubart - Jul 20, 2009 12:02 pm (#2482 of 2486)
You were clear enough, wynnleaf. I understood that "getting hidden" included changed names and identities (but obviously not changed memories).
I really imagined that this message would be broadcasted all over the world (not necessarily at the same date). If it doesn’t work in the UK, why not try it elsewhere? It is not necessary to be in control, just call the radio station and beg for help. (Maybe you have to confund somedody so that the journalists believe they have already checked that there really is a Hermione Granger in the hospital.)
Since the Grangers would have known that the bad guys were in charge in the UK, it would probably work better if it was broadcasted elsewere (making the Grangers wonder why on earth her daugther was in mongolia).
I’m sure our insufferable know-it-all knew everything about witness protection programs and how often this failed because the witnesses could not keep their secret under all circumstances. The real question here is not, what we would expect, but if Hermione believed that her parents could not be tricked in any imaginable way.
Since Hermione said that the modification of memories was done "to make it more difficult for Voldemort to track them down" and we can see how Hermione may have believed that her parents could be trapped if she didn’t modify their memories, there is no reason to assume that she lied about this und to invent other motives like "they refused to hide" or "they tried to stop her" or even "she wanted to get rid of them anyway" (this one i didn’t see for a long time, and I’m aware that you didn’t exactly say any of the above).
Now, trying to imagine this conversation, I find it quite difficult to say "Well, if I could be sure that you don’t love me enough to be trapped in this way, it would not be necesary to change your memories". Maybe it was more easy to hex them without warning.
The time tunnel project is far off schedule. There is (again) so much to read on this forum that i hardly find time to do anything.
- Sep 19, 2009 2:14 am (#2483 of 2486)
Happy birthday to Hermione Granger-Weasley hope you have a wonderful day.
Michael Franz - Sep 26, 2009 2:45 pm (#2484 of 2486)
I really imagined that this message would be broadcasted all over the world (not necessarily at the same date). If it doesn’t work in the UK, why not try it elsewhere?
Why am I suddenly reminded of the beginning of the anime Death Note, where L tricks Light into killing a man on a broadcast he said was worldwide, then revealed it was only broadcast in the Tokyo area, thus proving Light was in Tokyo? Probably because the Lexicon's icon is the same "L" as L uses.
Hmmmm.... do Horcruxes protect you against shinigami?
- Sep 26, 2009 3:03 pm (#2485 of 2486)
Ok, I'll ask; what is shinigami?
Michael Franz - Sep 26, 2009 4:07 pm (#2486 of 2486)
Shinigami are spirits of death in Death Note. The title refers to the notebook each shinigami carries which can be used to kill anyone whose name is written in it. So, if Harry were to get his hands on one of these and wrote down "Tom Marvolo Riddle"... it would be a short book.
+ Hermione Granger